4.15 maintenance branch

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
5 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

4.15 maintenance branch

Andrey Loskutov
Hi all,

since we've started with Eclipse quarterly release cadence we've
basically stopped development on maintenance branch. I saw that few
commits were done here and there, but I didn't found any strategy /
guidance.

In short, I maintain private 4.12 SDK branch with lot of backported
patches from master. I do this for our product, and I plan to start
another maintenance branch for 4.15 soon.

This time I believe it would make sense to not maintain my own private
branch, but just push backported patches we need to the "official"
R4_15_maintenance branch.

What would be the "right" way to do so? Do I need any approval from
component leads, do I need extra bugs opened to backport regression
fixes, any "+1" from other developers? Or can I just push, run gerrit
build, and if it is green, merge? Since no one seem to work on
maintenance branches anyway, this should be not a problem for anyone?

Another question would be if we could produce some regular SDK snapshot
builds from that branch, and if there are resources & interest for this?
I personally don't need that build, we build SDK locally, but it could
be something people are searching for.

I'm asking here because I believe it makes sense to give results of my
(paid) maintenance work back to community, and it is really sad to see
people searching for some fixes on a "known good" SDK version but seeing
only the way to get a new major SDK version with new unknown regressions
instead.

Please note, I do not plan to maintain backports branch for every major
SDK release, I have only resources (and plan) to do this for *some*
releases.

So there are basically two questions:

1) What are the rules for backporting patches to maintenance branch?
2) Any interest in producing SDK builds from this branch?

--
Kind regards,
Andrey Loskutov

https://www.eclipse.org/user/aloskutov
---------------------------------------------
Спасение утопающих - дело рук самих утопающих
---------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
platform-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [platform-releng-dev] 4.15 maintenance branch

Mickael Istria-5
Hi Andrey,

I think it's a very strategic and tactical discussion to have for the sustainability of the project, and the ability of adopters to produce added value on top of it.

IMO, the new cadence really helps the project to move forward, and that it particularly achieved by 2 things:
1. we release more frequently so contributors are more enthusiast as they get their added value delivered sooner
2. we basically dropped the maintenance branch and all the additional development/releng cost.

So what your suggest is currently going the other way of item 2.
If you wish to take care of item 2 fully, I think it's fine as it increases the value offered by the project.
But it IMO becomes an issue if this decision affects the project as a whole or more contributors who are not interested in maintenance branch. The agreement nowadays seems to be that the level of effort current contributors are willing to put into maintenance branch is lower than the necessary effort to handle maintenance branches correctly. However, if your involvement puts the balance in the opposite site, I don't think the project should refrain you from doing maintenance branches.
But then, there is only one issue remaining: what "SLA" do we put on such maintenance branch? Can we state that we support them? Or can we state that they are supported with lower effort and expectations? Or can we state that you are the only one supporting them?... It's a bit complex to clarify what's the exact offering to the broader community and what are the commitments that go with it.

It's not an easy topic ;)

_______________________________________________
platform-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [platform-releng-dev] 4.15 maintenance branch

Andrey Loskutov
Mickael,
I'm not questioning the new release cadence, I honestly don't want to touch this topic here.

I also do not want to start discussing which politically correct way do we explain it to the people why do we have a maintenance branch. We have the maintenance branch already, just check git repositories, and nobody complained / explained this to anyone.

Also I plan to start backportimg patches *anyway*, so it was also not a question if I would do it or not.

I only want to know if the work I would do on a private branch is of interest for someone else, and if I should spend some more effort to publish it on an official branch instead on the private one, and what are rules to do so.

The second question regarding the SDK build is of course more "public" one, but it is not that important for me, I only wanted to know if there is interest for that.

For the promises about quality - well, our official 4.12 build is definitely of lower quality compared with my private one, but I've also already managed to create regressions while backporting regression fixes :). So what, there's no guarantee for quality in today's world, I believe this is what the young developers learn in the school, reading monthly security bulletins on insecure mobile phones. It's all only "best effort".


Am 27. Februar 2020 21:17:57 MEZ schrieb Mickael Istria <[hidden email]>:

>Hi Andrey,
>
>I think it's a very strategic and tactical discussion to have for the
>sustainability of the project, and the ability of adopters to produce
>added
>value on top of it.
>
>IMO, the new cadence really helps the project to move forward, and that
>it
>particularly achieved by 2 things:
>1. we release more frequently so contributors are more enthusiast as
>they
>get their added value delivered sooner
>2. we basically dropped the maintenance branch and all the additional
>development/releng cost.
>
>So what your suggest is currently going the other way of item 2.
>If you wish to take care of item 2 fully, I think it's fine as it
>increases
>the value offered by the project.
>But it IMO becomes an issue if this decision affects the project as a
>whole
>or more contributors who are not interested in maintenance branch. The
>agreement nowadays seems to be that the level of effort current
>contributors are willing to put into maintenance branch is lower than
>the
>necessary effort to handle maintenance branches correctly. However, if
>your
>involvement puts the balance in the opposite site, I don't think the
>project should refrain you from doing maintenance branches.
>But then, there is only one issue remaining: what "SLA" do we put on
>such
>maintenance branch? Can we state that we support them? Or can we state
>that
>they are supported with lower effort and expectations? Or can we state
>that
>you are the only one supporting them?... It's a bit complex to clarify
>what's the exact offering to the broader community and what are the
>commitments that go with it.
>
>It's not an easy topic ;)

--
Kind regards,
Andrey Loskutov

https://www.eclipse.org/user/aloskutov
Спасение утопающих - дело рук самих утопающих
_______________________________________________
platform-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [platform-releng-dev] 4.15 maintenance branch

Lars Vogel-2
Hi Andrey,

IIRC multiple IBM developers have downports fixes to maintenance
branches in the past.

I don't think any special approval is required for this.

Best regards, Lars


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:49 PM Mickael Istria <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I read that we're mostly agreeing here.
> About work on maintenance branch, I think our team at Red Hat doesn't care either way; we try to focus on strategies that allow us to never look back.
>
> _______________________________________________
> platform-releng-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-releng-dev



--
Eclipse Platform project co-lead
CEO vogella GmbH

Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: [hidden email], Web: http://www.vogella.com
_______________________________________________
platform-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [platform-releng-dev] 4.15 maintenance branch

Daniel Megert
In reply to this post by Andrey Loskutov
Hi Andrey

Thanks for bringing this up.

Since the release train moved to a quarterly release cycle there was zero interest to contribute to the maintenance branches that get created when moving to the next release. It was only used by IBM and fed with backports by IBMers (maybe with some exceptions that I can't remember right now). Right from the beginning IBM wanted to make those fixes available for everyone and not keep them in a private branch. It would be great if other people use the maintenance branches (also old ones) to backport critical fixes, or fixes that are important to their work/product/company.

Given that the code is merged after RC2, the same rules must be followed as for RC2 in https://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_4_15.php. This also means: no API changes or feature work without PMC approval.

The Platform Releng team will not spend resources to do maintenance builds. However, anyone can use the source and build it but must not expect the Platform Releng team to hold hands.

So, welcome Andrey!
Dani



From:        Andrey Loskutov <[hidden email]>
To:        "Eclipse platform release engineering list." <[hidden email]>, "Eclipse platform general developers list." <[hidden email]>
Date:        27.02.2020 21:03
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] [platform-releng-dev] 4.15 maintenance branch
Sent by:        [hidden email]




Hi all,

since we've started with Eclipse quarterly release cadence we've
basically stopped development on maintenance branch. I saw that few
commits were done here and there, but I didn't found any strategy /
guidance.

In short, I maintain private 4.12 SDK branch with lot of backported
patches from master. I do this for our product, and I plan to start
another maintenance branch for 4.15 soon.

This time I believe it would make sense to not maintain my own private
branch, but just push backported patches we need to the "official"
R4_15_maintenance branch.

What would be the "right" way to do so? Do I need any approval from
component leads, do I need extra bugs opened to backport regression
fixes, any "+1" from other developers? Or can I just push, run gerrit
build, and if it is green, merge? Since no one seem to work on
maintenance branches anyway, this should be not a problem for anyone?

Another question would be if we could produce some regular SDK snapshot
builds from that branch, and if there are resources & interest for this?
I personally don't need that build, we build SDK locally, but it could
be something people are searching for.

I'm asking here because I believe it makes sense to give results of my
(paid) maintenance work back to community, and it is really sad to see
people searching for some fixes on a "known good" SDK version but seeing
only the way to get a new major SDK version with new unknown regressions
instead.

Please note, I do not plan to maintain backports branch for every major
SDK release, I have only resources (and plan) to do this for *some*
releases.

So there are basically two questions:

1) What are the rules for backporting patches to maintenance branch?
2) Any interest in producing SDK builds from this branch?

--
Kind regards,
Andrey Loskutov

https://www.eclipse.org/user/aloskutov
---------------------------------------------
Спасение утопающих - дело рук самих утопающих
---------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
platform-releng-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-releng-dev



_______________________________________________
platform-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev