CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

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CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Jonah Graham
Hello folks,

CDT for Eclipse 2020-09 M3 has now been posted. I am following the steps in the "endgame" ticket.

Reminder: We will be shipping CDT 10.0.0 in September. CDT 10 will have some breaking API changes.

CDT is planning on shipping 10.0.0 as part of the 2020-09 release. Please have a look at the New and Noteworthy and the active and completed bugs to see what is planned for this release.

The CDT p2 repo is https://download.eclipse.org/tools/cdt/builds/10.0/cdt-10.0.0-rc1 * and is based on commit 1562080a  

The complete bundled C/C++ Package (the one that will be posted to https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/) will be ready this Friday/Saturday as will the CDT Standalone debugger.

---

This is our schedule for publishing CDT's contribution to 2020-09 simultaneous release. See SimRel 2020-09 Plan for further details.  (The EPP generally will be available on Friday of the same week):
Today - 2020-09 RC1
Monday 7 Sep - 2020-09 RC2
Then we are in Quiet week(s) until the release on Wed 16 Sep.

Thanks,
Jonah 
~~~
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders
www.kichwacoders.com

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Jonah Graham
Hello folks,

The EPP for C/C++ will be available around 10am on Saturday on https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/release/2020-09/rc1/eclipse-ide-cc-developers

The Eclipse CDT Standalone debugger is now available and there is now a Linux AArch64 version available. https://download.eclipse.org/tools/cdt/builds/10.0/cdt-10.0.0-rc1/rcp/

Thanks.
Jonah

~~~
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders
www.kichwacoders.com


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 07:47, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello folks,

CDT for Eclipse 2020-09 M3 has now been posted. I am following the steps in the "endgame" ticket.

Reminder: We will be shipping CDT 10.0.0 in September. CDT 10 will have some breaking API changes.

CDT is planning on shipping 10.0.0 as part of the 2020-09 release. Please have a look at the New and Noteworthy and the active and completed bugs to see what is planned for this release.

The CDT p2 repo is https://download.eclipse.org/tools/cdt/builds/10.0/cdt-10.0.0-rc1 * and is based on commit 1562080a  

The complete bundled C/C++ Package (the one that will be posted to https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/) will be ready this Friday/Saturday as will the CDT Standalone debugger.

---

This is our schedule for publishing CDT's contribution to 2020-09 simultaneous release. See SimRel 2020-09 Plan for further details.  (The EPP generally will be available on Friday of the same week):
Today - 2020-09 RC1
Monday 7 Sep - 2020-09 RC2
Then we are in Quiet week(s) until the release on Wed 16 Sep.

Thanks,
Jonah 
~~~
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders
www.kichwacoders.com

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Liviu Ionescu-2


> On 4 Sep 2020, at 05:12, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
>
> The EPP for C/C++ will be available around 10am on Saturday on https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/release/2020-09/rc1/eclipse-ide-cc-developers
>
> The Eclipse CDT Standalone debugger is now available and there is now a Linux AArch64 version available.

Great!

Excuse my ignorance, I never used the standalone debugger, so if you point me to a documentation page, I can test it on my Berry (I just got a new one, with 8 GB of RAM! Really nice and capable toy!)

> https://download.eclipse.org/tools/cdt/builds/10.0/cdt-10.0.0-rc1/rcp/

I see the mac archive is no longer a .dmg, but a .tar.gz, which I personally prefer more.

Was there any decision on no longer using .dmg?

Regards,

Liviu


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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Jonah Graham

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 02:45, Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On 4 Sep 2020, at 05:12, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
>
> The EPP for C/C++ will be available around 10am on Saturday on https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/release/2020-09/rc1/eclipse-ide-cc-developers
>
> The Eclipse CDT Standalone debugger is now available and there is now a Linux AArch64 version available.

Great!

Excuse my ignorance, I never used the standalone debugger, so if you point me to a documentation page, I can test it on my Berry (I just got a new one, with 8 GB of RAM! Really nice and capable toy!)

 

> https://download.eclipse.org/tools/cdt/builds/10.0/cdt-10.0.0-rc1/rcp/

I see the mac archive is no longer a .dmg, but a .tar.gz, which I personally prefer more.

Was there any decision on no longer using .dmg?

The standalone debugger has not been a dmg for a long time - I don't know the circumstances as they predate by involvement in the project. The "no longer" is probably because you are comparing the EPP project which does ship a dmg to the CDT standalone debugger.

AFAIK the biggest consumer of the CDT Standalone Debugger is being included as packages in Linux distributions. I have no idea if anyone uses the macosx version.

HTH,
Jonah

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Liviu Ionescu-2


> On 4 Sep 2020, at 17:53, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> https://wiki.eclipse.org/CDT/StandaloneDebugger

It probably works only for native binaries and gdb. I tried to open a cross Arm binary, the program started but nothing was shown.

> I have no idea if anyone uses the macosx version.

If it depends on gdb, probably not, since macOS uses lldb.


Regards,

Liviu

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Jonah Graham
CDT Standalone debugger is simply Eclipse CDT with some UI simplifications. So there is nothing inherently different about it. The UI simplifications (in the File menu) make Debug configurations with many more of the fields defaulted. But the actual launch configuration is still there and can be used. The defaults are based around running host GDB.

> If it depends on gdb, probably not, since macOS uses lldb.

No more or less dependent on gdb than full fat CDT.

On Fri., Sep. 4, 2020, 11:25 Liviu Ionescu, <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On 4 Sep 2020, at 17:53, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> https://wiki.eclipse.org/CDT/StandaloneDebugger

It probably works only for native binaries and gdb. I tried to open a cross Arm binary, the program started but nothing was shown.

> I have no idea if anyone uses the macosx version.

If it depends on gdb, probably not, since macOS uses lldb.


Regards,

Liviu

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Marc-Andre Laperle-3
The .app doesn’t start on macOS, probably because it’s not signed. I’m not sure it’s worth fixing right now. I suggest to drop that platform for the stand-alone debugger as I don’t think there are many users for that. I also don’t think I’ll have time to properly support it and test it. I had hopes that with lldb-mi shipped by default with Xcode that the stand-alone debugger would be a nice and easy alternative to Xcode (most devs will have Xcode installed already) but lldb-mi is now removed from main LLVM depot and Xcode so this is even more of a niche usage.

BTW, the error is: “cdt-stand-alone-debugger” is damaged and can’t be opened. You should move it to the Trash.

Marc-Andre


On Sep 4, 2020, at 1:18 PM, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:

CDT Standalone debugger is simply Eclipse CDT with some UI simplifications. So there is nothing inherently different about it. The UI simplifications (in the File menu) make Debug configurations with many more of the fields defaulted. But the actual launch configuration is still there and can be used. The defaults are based around running host GDB.

> If it depends on gdb, probably not, since macOS uses lldb.

No more or less dependent on gdb than full fat CDT.

On Fri., Sep. 4, 2020, 11:25 Liviu Ionescu, <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On 4 Sep 2020, at 17:53, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> https://wiki.eclipse.org/CDT/StandaloneDebugger

It probably works only for native binaries and gdb. I tried to open a cross Arm binary, the program started but nothing was shown.

> I have no idea if anyone uses the macosx version.

If it depends on gdb, probably not, since macOS uses lldb.


Regards,

Liviu

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Liviu Ionescu-2


> On 9 Sep 2020, at 19:14, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The .app doesn’t start on macOS, probably because it’s not signed.

If you remove the com.apple.quarantine attribute, it'll probably start:

https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/iot.embed-cdt/downloads

I don't use .dmg for my packages, only plain .tar.gz archives.


Regards,

Liviu

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Marc-Andre Laperle-3
Thanks! That work around does work. Though I’d rather fix the signing than asking users to do that. But then I'd rather not offer the download at all at this point since it seems quite unlikely that anyone would use it. But I have no hard numbers to base that on aside than the fact that gdb has been difficult to get working on macOS for years now since Apple doesn’t rely on it. We can leave the download as is if there is no agreement.

Marc-André

> On Sep 9, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 9 Sep 2020, at 19:14, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The .app doesn’t start on macOS, probably because it’s not signed.
>
> If you remove the com.apple.quarantine attribute, it'll probably start:
>
> https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/iot.embed-cdt/downloads
>
> I don't use .dmg for my packages, only plain .tar.gz archives.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Liviu
>
> _______________________________________________
> cdt-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Jonah Graham
The reality is that almost no one downloads the standalone debugger distributed on eclipse.org compared to the number who download the C/C++ EPP - I don't know how many use it via the Linux package available on their system.

Some comparison numbers of downloads for 2020-06 EPP and CDT 9.11.1
Linux C/C++ EPP: 415,098* & Stand alone debugger: 127
Windows  C/C++ EPP: 52,598 & Stand alone debugger: 190
Mac C/C++ EPP: 8,651 & Stand alone debugger: 29


Some comparison numbers of downloads for 2020-03 EPP and CDT 9.11.0
Linux C/C++ EPP: 64,895 & Stand alone debugger: 152
Windows  C/C++ EPP: 74,277 & Stand alone debugger: 242
Mac C/C++ EPP: 9,397 & Stand alone debugger: 43

The stand alone debugger numbers have been fairly stable for the last few years.

What is the effort in maintaining this? I don't know - and with RedHat investing in flatpak for CDT, the original journey and purpose of the stand alone debugger has diminished.



* I don't know why the Linux C/C++ EPP went up so dramatically in June release. The June release is the traditional main release of Eclipse? And I think that how Oomph installs are counted has changed too?


On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 00:19, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...] I'd rather not offer the download at all at this point since it seems quite unlikely that anyone would use it. But I have no hard numbers to base that on [...]

So, with the above numbers, does that influence your thoughts?

For me the standalone debugger is extra work for each release. However, including the Mac version is no extra work as long as we keep shipping Windows and Linux versions (no extra work because I have no means to test it). I am not going to spend the time trying to notarize or change to dmg or understand why the signing was shutoff - https://git.eclipse.org/r/c/cdt/org.eclipse.cdt/+/104907.

Thanks,
Jonah

~~~
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders
www.kichwacoders.com


On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 00:19, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks! That work around does work. Though I’d rather fix the signing than asking users to do that. But then I'd rather not offer the download at all at this point since it seems quite unlikely that anyone would use it. But I have no hard numbers to base that on aside than the fact that gdb has been difficult to get working on macOS for years now since Apple doesn’t rely on it. We can leave the download as is if there is no agreement.

Marc-André

> On Sep 9, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 9 Sep 2020, at 19:14, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The .app doesn’t start on macOS, probably because it’s not signed.
>
> If you remove the com.apple.quarantine attribute, it'll probably start:
>
> https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/iot.embed-cdt/downloads
>
> I don't use .dmg for my packages, only plain .tar.gz archives.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Liviu
>
> _______________________________________________
> cdt-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev

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Re: CDT 10.0.0 RC1 for 2020-09 RC1

Marc-Andre Laperle-3
Thanks for those numbers. It seems clear to me that the macOS one is not worth keeping, especially since I do not see a clear path for the user base to increase based on the state of GDB and CDT’s current lldb integration.

For Linux and Windows, I think it’s a bit different.
For Linux, I have a feeling that there might be some companies that do use it internally as is, by building from a cloned repo. I think it would warrant at least a bit of communication in a dedicated email thread ahead of time before it is removed from the main repo.
For Windows, I did see a path to grow the user base: game developers targeting Linux but debugging from a Windows host. But I am not ready to make a push in this direction right now so it seems perfectly OK to remove for now and could resurrect later if needed.

So IMO the Standalone debugger as a downloadable product is neat and a good proof of concept but I don’t think it currently warrants the effort given how popular is has been.

Marc-André

On Sep 13, 2020, at 9:50 PM, Jonah Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:

The reality is that almost no one downloads the standalone debugger distributed on eclipse.org compared to the number who download the C/C++ EPP - I don't know how many use it via the Linux package available on their system.

Some comparison numbers of downloads for 2020-06 EPP and CDT 9.11.1
Linux C/C++ EPP: 415,098* & Stand alone debugger: 127
Windows  C/C++ EPP: 52,598 & Stand alone debugger: 190
Mac C/C++ EPP: 8,651 & Stand alone debugger: 29


Some comparison numbers of downloads for 2020-03 EPP and CDT 9.11.0
Linux C/C++ EPP: 64,895 & Stand alone debugger: 152
Windows  C/C++ EPP: 74,277 & Stand alone debugger: 242
Mac C/C++ EPP: 9,397 & Stand alone debugger: 43

The stand alone debugger numbers have been fairly stable for the last few years.

What is the effort in maintaining this? I don't know - and with RedHat investing in flatpak for CDT, the original journey and purpose of the stand alone debugger has diminished.



* I don't know why the Linux C/C++ EPP went up so dramatically in June release. The June release is the traditional main release of Eclipse? And I think that how Oomph installs are counted has changed too?


On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 00:19, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...] I'd rather not offer the download at all at this point since it seems quite unlikely that anyone would use it. But I have no hard numbers to base that on [...]

So, with the above numbers, does that influence your thoughts?

For me the standalone debugger is extra work for each release. However, including the Mac version is no extra work as long as we keep shipping Windows and Linux versions (no extra work because I have no means to test it). I am not going to spend the time trying to notarize or change to dmg or understand why the signing was shutoff - https://git.eclipse.org/r/c/cdt/org.eclipse.cdt/+/104907.

Thanks,
Jonah

~~~
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders
www.kichwacoders.com


On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 00:19, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks! That work around does work. Though I’d rather fix the signing than asking users to do that. But then I'd rather not offer the download at all at this point since it seems quite unlikely that anyone would use it. But I have no hard numbers to base that on aside than the fact that gdb has been difficult to get working on macOS for years now since Apple doesn’t rely on it. We can leave the download as is if there is no agreement.

Marc-André

> On Sep 9, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 9 Sep 2020, at 19:14, Marc-Andre Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The .app doesn’t start on macOS, probably because it’s not signed.
>
> If you remove the com.apple.quarantine attribute, it'll probably start:
>
> https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/iot.embed-cdt/downloads
>
> I don't use .dmg for my packages, only plain .tar.gz archives.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Liviu
>
> _______________________________________________
> cdt-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev

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