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LLVM plug-in NPE

Liviu Ionescu-2
Since I noticed some desire to improve LLVM support, I registered one NPE bug (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=512096).

I have no idea if and how others use this plug-in, but, for me, on macOS and Ubuntu, this bug makes the LLVM plug-in almost unusable.


Regards,

Liviu

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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Jesper Eskilson-5

I had an ambition to get give the LLVM-support some attention, but haven't been able to spend any significant time on it.

/Jesper

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Liviu Ionescu
Sent: den 13 februari 2017 23:16
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE

Since I noticed some desire to improve LLVM support, I registered one NPE bug (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=512096).

I have no idea if and how others use this plug-in, but, for me, on macOS and Ubuntu, this bug makes the LLVM plug-in almost unusable.


Regards,

Liviu

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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Liviu Ionescu-2

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 15:21, Jesper Eskilson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had an ambition to get give the LLVM-support some attention, but haven't been able to spend any significant time on it.

any contribution is welcomed, I cannot comment on how much time any developer affords to spend on contributions, but LLVM support definitely deserves more attention.

as it is now, I consider it experimental, or even less, and I wonder how it got its way into the distribution.

if more progress is made, I can help with some testing on macOS.


regards,

Liviu

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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Marc-André Laperle
In reply to this post by Liviu Ionescu-2


I don't really know where to start with this plugin to be honest. I think the preferences pages for setting the paths should be removed, as it is going against the way all the other toolchains work. It also adds includes to all configs in the workspace, which seems backwards.

Any objection to that? I'll also look at some comments you put on bugzilla too.


A few other things:

- LLVM with GCC. Is that for Dragonegg? I think that's deprecated so it could be removed for simplification.

- Why is clang set to emit-llvm instead of object files? Is it for performance reasons or??


Let me know what you think,

Marc-André


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 5:16:13 PM
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 
Since I noticed some desire to improve LLVM support, I registered one NPE bug (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=512096).

I have no idea if and how others use this plug-in, but, for me, on macOS and Ubuntu, this bug makes the LLVM plug-in almost unusable.


Regards,

Liviu

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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Marc Khouzam
In reply to this post by Liviu Ionescu-2

The LLVM support was added as experimental and labelled as such when the user installs is.

The goal was to get this preliminary support in the hands of the community and stimulate

some interest to improve it.  It seems this is starting to happen :-)



From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]>
Sent: February 14, 2017 9:44
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 15:21, Jesper Eskilson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had an ambition to get give the LLVM-support some attention, but haven't been able to spend any significant time on it.

any contribution is welcomed, I cannot comment on how much time any developer affords to spend on contributions, but LLVM support definitely deserves more attention.

as it is now, I consider it experimental, or even less, and I wonder how it got its way into the distribution.

if more progress is made, I can help with some testing on macOS.


regards,

Liviu

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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Doug Schaefer-3
It was also added at a time when C++ on LLVM was young. Right now, clang is clearly the winner (over weird combinations with gcc). Also interesting is that clang is pretty much 100% compatible with gcc. For example, I simply added clang and clang++ as possible command names for the GCCToolChain in the new build system and it just works, including scanner discovery of built-ins.

So I’m not sure whether we really need LLVM support in CDT at all other than extend the exiting gcc tool definitions to handle clang as well.

Doug.

From: <[hidden email]> on behalf of Marc Khouzam <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: "CDT General developers list." <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 10:12 AM
To: "CDT General developers list." <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE

The LLVM support was added as experimental and labelled as such when the user installs is.

The goal was to get this preliminary support in the hands of the community and stimulate

some interest to improve it.  It seems this is starting to happen :-)



From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]>
Sent: February 14, 2017 9:44
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 15:21, Jesper Eskilson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had an ambition to get give the LLVM-support some attention, but haven't been able to spend any significant time on it.

any contribution is welcomed, I cannot comment on how much time any developer affords to spend on contributions, but LLVM support definitely deserves more attention.

as it is now, I consider it experimental, or even less, and I wonder how it got its way into the distribution.

if more progress is made, I can help with some testing on macOS.


regards,

Liviu

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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Marc-André Laperle

I think we share the same vision. For managed build, just extend GCC and remove/add the differences if needed. Also need basic auto-detection of the toolchain (just check PATH?). So I'm thinking of progressively removing stuff from the plugin to get there and see if there's anything valuable to keep in the process.


Marc-André


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Doug Schaefer <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:21:04 AM
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 
It was also added at a time when C++ on LLVM was young. Right now, clang is clearly the winner (over weird combinations with gcc). Also interesting is that clang is pretty much 100% compatible with gcc. For example, I simply added clang and clang++ as possible command names for the GCCToolChain in the new build system and it just works, including scanner discovery of built-ins.

So I’m not sure whether we really need LLVM support in CDT at all other than extend the exiting gcc tool definitions to handle clang as well.

Doug.

From: <[hidden email]> on behalf of Marc Khouzam <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: "CDT General developers list." <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 10:12 AM
To: "CDT General developers list." <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE

The LLVM support was added as experimental and labelled as such when the user installs is.

The goal was to get this preliminary support in the hands of the community and stimulate

some interest to improve it.  It seems this is starting to happen :-)



From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]>
Sent: February 14, 2017 9:44
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 15:21, Jesper Eskilson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had an ambition to get give the LLVM-support some attention, but haven't been able to spend any significant time on it.

any contribution is welcomed, I cannot comment on how much time any developer affords to spend on contributions, but LLVM support definitely deserves more attention.

as it is now, I consider it experimental, or even less, and I wonder how it got its way into the distribution.

if more progress is made, I can help with some testing on macOS.


regards,

Liviu

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[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
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dev.eclipse.org
Mailing list: cdt-dev CDT General developers list. About cdt-dev



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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Doug Schaefer-3
+1

I think we share the same vision. For managed build, just extend GCC and remove/add the differences if needed. Also need basic auto-detection of the toolchain (just check PATH?). So I'm thinking of progressively removing stuff from the plugin to get there and see if there's anything valuable to keep in the process.


On Mac and Linux, it’s in the PATH. I’ll have to check, but MSYS2 might have clang, in which case it should use the same logic as mingw on MSYS2.


Marc-André


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Doug Schaefer <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:21:04 AM
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 
It was also added at a time when C++ on LLVM was young. Right now, clang is clearly the winner (over weird combinations with gcc). Also interesting is that clang is pretty much 100% compatible with gcc. For example, I simply added clang and clang++ as possible command names for the GCCToolChain in the new build system and it just works, including scanner discovery of built-ins.

So I’m not sure whether we really need LLVM support in CDT at all other than extend the exiting gcc tool definitions to handle clang as well.

Doug.

From: <[hidden email]> on behalf of Marc Khouzam <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: "CDT General developers list." <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 10:12 AM
To: "CDT General developers list." <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE

The LLVM support was added as experimental and labelled as such when the user installs is.

The goal was to get this preliminary support in the hands of the community and stimulate

some interest to improve it.  It seems this is starting to happen :-)



From:[hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]>
Sent: February 14, 2017 9:44
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 15:21, Jesper Eskilson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had an ambition to get give the LLVM-support some attention, but haven't been able to spend any significant time on it.

any contribution is welcomed, I cannot comment on how much time any developer affords to spend on contributions, but LLVM support definitely deserves more attention.

as it is now, I consider it experimental, or even less, and I wonder how it got its way into the distribution.

if more progress is made, I can help with some testing on macOS.


regards,

Liviu

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
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dev.eclipse.org
Mailing list: cdt-dev CDT General developers list. About cdt-dev



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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Liviu Ionescu-2
In reply to this post by Marc-André Laperle

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 17:09, Marc-André Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> ... the preferences pages for setting the paths should be removed

agree

> ... It also adds includes to all configs in the workspace, which seems backwards.

I'm not sure I understand this.

> - LLVM with GCC. Is that for Dragonegg? I think that's deprecated so it could be removed for simplification.

I don't know, on macOS I use both the gcc & clang versions.

> - Why is clang set to emit-llvm instead of object files? Is it for performance reasons or??

with emit-llvm the compiler produces byte codes, and the linker combines them, makes some global optimisations which were not possible at file level, and finally generates the binary code. latest GCC also got something similar, named LTO (Link Time Optimizations).


some more details that perhaps might be addressed:

- prefix/suffix; since I run my tests on multiple compiler versions, I have configurations that use clang-3.8, clang-3.9, and I also foresee cases when I'll use something like arm-none-eabi-clang-5.2; similarly for GCC I have configurations which use gcc-5, gcc-6, as arm-none-eabi-gcc.

in GNU ARM Eclipse plug-ins I have common toolchain definitions with prefix/suffix, and even full control over all program names; perhaps something similar can be considered here.

- multiple definitions for different platforms, like Linux, MacOS, etc; are these really necessary? aren't these multiple definitions impacting portability? or at least perceived portability? for example, if I create a project on my macOS and use the "LLVM with clang (MacOS)" toolchain, and later the project will be used on Linux or Windows, is it normal for the toolchain name to display MacOS? the same problem applies to existing GCC toolchain definitions.


perhaps a single toolchain definitions could be used for all platforms, and specific names could be entered as prefix/suffix, or similar methods.


regards,

Liviu




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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Liviu Ionescu-2
In reply to this post by Marc-André Laperle

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 17:26, Marc-André Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ... progressively removing stuff from the plugin to get there and see if there's anything valuable to keep in the process.

I'm convinced the long term outcome will be great, but for short term, could you check the NPE and possibly fix it for the next release?

Regards,

Liviu


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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Marc-André Laperle

I'll check, but I haven't been able to reproduce it yet (macOS).


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:38:56 AM
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 17:26, Marc-André Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ... progressively removing stuff from the plugin to get there and see if there's anything valuable to keep in the process.

I'm convinced the long term outcome will be great, but for short term, could you check the NPE and possibly fix it for the next release?

Regards,

Liviu


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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Liviu Ionescu-2

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 17:53, Marc-André Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  I haven't been able to reproduce it yet (macOS)

any progress?


Liviu


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Re: LLVM plug-in NPE

Marc-André Laperle

Yes. I reproduced it. I have a possible fix but not too sure about it. I'll continue the discussion on the bug.


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Liviu Ionescu <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:53:28 AM
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] LLVM plug-in NPE
 

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 17:53, Marc-André Laperle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  I haven't been able to reproduce it yet (macOS)

any progress?


Liviu


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